How nekid_spike Supports Fandom

[sevendeadlyfun]

I've had some good times over at nekid_spike  and they've really inspired me to create a bunch of great art. So, when I found out about all the fics that had been stolen and redistributed without permission, I posted this information at nekid_spike  . I received a lot of support from various communities. People really jumped in to help me out and spread the word. One of the mods at nekid_spike  even commented on my post, saying that they were keeping an eye on the situation, even though it looked as if their community wasn't involved.

Gotta say, though, the email I got this morning? Kinda horked me off. I was wading through a few emails from various and sundry when I spotted one labeled "Post On Nekid Spike". Things that make you "hmm"...I was worried that the situation had gotten worse whilst I slumbered (and did I mention I look very cute when I slumber? I didn't? That's because I don't.).

The email was from lil_coyote  , one of the moderators at nekid_spike  . Apparently, my post was, if not offensive, than at least unwelcome. Of course, I'm irritated and in my irritation I may be exaggerating, so how's about we let lil_coyote  speak for herself?

"Hi there. This is lil_coyote aka YoteMod from Nekid Spike with a couple small requests. First, would you mind putting the bulk of your recent post about unauthorized translations under lj-cut, please? It helps to keep things neat when we have big pictures or longer posts and it would be much appreciated. Also, while we appreciate your justifiable exasperation with the situation, we do have a no-flame policy and ask if you could please supply the pertinent facts without bringing in emotional accusations that could lead to a hostile environment. Thank you."

Hey, LJ-cut? No big. I get it. WhenI first posted it, I wanted it to be an attention grabber. I know that I so often will simply scroll past posts on my f-list and not even notice one or two of the tiny ones. So I posted big to get attention. However, I'm fairly sure most, if not all, of the authors have been contacted. The urgency is gone. Sure, I can put it behind the cut.

But, wait...there's more. My post (which, you'll recall, pertained to people taking fics without permission, re-posting them to their own archives and redistributing them as PDF files) violates  their "no-flame" policy? How? No, seriously, how? Is calling people who take things without permission "thieves" flaming now? Because that and only that is the one time I deviated from "pertinent facts" in my post regarding this situation. I guess my only response is that the truth hurts. When you take something that isn't yours without permission, you are stealing. People who steal are thieves. Teh trooth: let me show you it...

So, I'm no longer a member of nekid_spike. In my opinion, any community that feels exposing thieves is flaming and creates a hostile environment is not really worth my time. However, I'm sincerely grateful for all the good times I've had there and all the lovely people I've met as a result of my time there. Hope I'll see you guys in other communities!

Comments

[tamakin.livejournal.com]

Yup that is perplexing. I agree with you that making a post pointing out a plagiarism issue such as this is in no way flaming, and your post was i thought stating fact, rather than accusations. It'd be a far worse thing if you hadnt bother to say anything, and it was let to continue.

lalalala at least all the authors that were nicked from know about it now i suppose.
*huggles ya*

[sevendeadlyfun.livejournal.com]

*hugs you back*

You know, the whole situation is just ridiculous. I'm really sad that they feel that way, but it is their community. I'll definitely miss them, but I just can't stay in a community that feels that informing authors that their stories were stolen is flaming.

[vampgirly.livejournal.com]

Arrived here via tamakin and just wanted to leave you a comment.

Gotta say I'm kinda not surprised at all at their response, I mean some members and mods actively encouraged a known plagiarist to post on the comm under various different names (after the plagiarist had been outted) and that was why I left both as a Mod and subsequently as a member.

Stealing is stealing however you try and paint it, those who are victims of plagiarism are violated by it and quite rightly get pissed off by it. As one of the larger comms out there you'd of thought that the mods would have been a little more understanding of the situation, cause you can be damn sure if it had of been one of them that had stuff stolen then there would have been fire and brimstone for all to see.

*breathes* here endeth my rant, good luck with getting your stuff taken down from the site *hugs*

[sevendeadlyfun.livejournal.com]

Thanks, sweetie! I appreciate your support. I know what you and Tam and Rae went through is monstrous compared to this. After all, stealing is stealing but plagiarizing is far worse than a simple lift. I did expect the mods to support me and that's why this email just shocked me. But, again, it is their community and I just play there...

*hugs you tight*

[vampgirly.livejournal.com]

It may be that you just play there, but you were doing the decent thing and informing people as a whole that this person had taken fics to translate without getting permission first. I still dont see how you were flaming by telling people about it, but then I've long been of the opinion that certain folks over on NS see the world slightly differently to us lower mortals.

[raemcn.livejournal.com]

ROFLMAO! Still can't quit laughing about this. *snorts*

[sevendeadlyfun.livejournal.com]

You're a nut, sweetie! It's why I worship the quicksand you walk on... :P

[ash-carpenter.livejournal.com]

Ok...I'm sorry if you were upset by the email you received. And I'm also VERY sorry if you (and apparently, several other people) think that nekid_spike supports plagiariam, theft etc...

I'm not sure that our position was necessarily made 100% clear, and I personally feel that it wasn't a violation of NS's "no-flame policy" exactly that was the issue.

We wanted the post to stay. We wanted our members to be aware of the facts of what happened, and the authors who had been affected etc. We just didn't want to come outright and say that it was blatant theft etc. Maybe it was. And an emotional, affronted response was completely natural. However, what with language barriers and good intentions gone awry and a million other factors, it could have been a genuine mistake.

Maybe (probably) that's unlikely and naive. Fair enough. But all of us have seen communities and people torn apart by divided opinions and misunderstandings. Small, perfectly understandable and justifiable, comments have started large backlashes that have ended with veritable LJ wars. That is all that we want to avoid at NS.

Every Mod reserves the right to have their own opinion about events that occur and they can be as outspoken and emotional as they want on their own LJs. The same as all members can. However, the community itself is a collection of 500+ people, not 9 Mods. However distasteful some people may find it, we are forced to try to keep the forum of the community neutral.

And THAT is why NS is a fun place to play. Because we concentrate on fiction and artwork, and not politics.

The post was supported. We wanted the information out there for our members to do what they wished with it. It just needed to be neutral.

Right, so I've said my piece and hopefully clarified matters somewhat.

Please please please don't think that this is an attack of any kind. Or even a defensive stance. I just wanted to try to cast some extra light on the issue.

Both as an NS mod and as Ash, I understand your position and also hope that we will meet in other communities. I'd also like to say that I don't want this to become a back-and-forthing issue. I don't want to involve other people or start up a big discussion. The only reason that I am posting it as a comment rather than sending you a private email is because I prefer the transparency of it.

I'd also like to say, very personally, that I hate it when these things happen. And I wish it was all easy, but...Well, you're a mod yourself. You know how hard it can be. *sigh*

Ash.

[sevendeadlyfun.livejournal.com]

Ash,

Hon, there's no hard feelings. Okay, maybe a smidge because I don't feel I did anything wrong vis a vis my post on nekid_spike. But in general, I'm cool. You guys have a comm to run and you run it as you see fit. No hating here, sweetie. But between this issue and the earlier problem of some of the mods at nekid_spike supporting a plagiarist's involvement at the community, I just feel that there's a lack of support for authors. Obviously a personal opinion and only valid as such. Thank you for taking the time to clarify the issue. I really do appreciate it and I hope you won't be angry with me. :)

[ash-carpenter.livejournal.com]

No hard feelings here, hon. And, just to be absolutely clear, no-one's saying you did anything wrong. As you pointed out, we have a comm to run and it is just one of our policies to remain neutral as much as we can while doing the best by our members, which is something we have to apply uniformly. Of course, it doesn't always work that way, unfortunately, but the intentions are always good!

I do just have to say that I disagree with the comment that there is a lack of support for authors - and that has nothing to do with being a mod; that is a personal opinion as an author. Of all the comms I have viewed/belong to, I have never seen such encouragement and support from members and mods. But, I am absolutely happy to agree to disagree on that point. As you say, it's a personal opinion and only valid as such.

Thank you for your response. And no, of course I'm not angry! The absolute last thing in the world I want is any bad feeling. I think we should move on and get back to enjoying the smut together ;-)

[lil-coyote.livejournal.com]

It was never my intent as a mod to imply that you did not have a valid complaint with the Italian sight. It was never my intent as a mod to say you should not post your concern on NS so other authors similarly affected could be informed. We all agreed informing others was the right thing to do. What I was trying to do, and not very well apparently, was politely as possible distill the concern over the issue blowing up into a huge thing that caused bad feelings on NS. This wasn't a flippant response, nor an attempt to say that you did not have a valid concern or valid reason for anger at the situation on the Italian com.

[takhen.livejournal.com]

Ouch. I love your work and follow it both as Flist and on NS Community. I would hate to miss anything, but understand how you feel. If its not too much to ask could you point me to another community that you cross post to please?

Thanks

[sevendeadlyfun.livejournal.com]

Well, you can always find my writing here. I also post at darker_spike, tamingthemuse and bloodclaim, depending on the characters involved. My fics are mainly posted here, though, so my journal is the best place to keep an eye on me! :)

[alwaysjbj.livejournal.com]

*sigh* I really don't see how your post violates any no-flame policy, but there you go. I have had members of the forum (including the forum moderator) coming onto my LJ to complain about my post--it seems they really don't like people pointing out that they did the wrong thing!

Anyway *hugs* And I, for one, am very grateful to you for pointing this out!

[sevendeadlyfun.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much. I too have received comments from them and it's just ludicrous. I'm glad I could help you, though!

[vamptastica.livejournal.com]

hey, just letting you know I posted about this on my site but it is NOT intended to slander or slam you sweetie, I honestly want people opinions on why they think it's theft, plagairism etc. I'm weird that way cause personally (and THIS IS ONLY ME TALKING) I don't care cause I pretty much think my stuff sucks so if someone wants it...go..enjoy...steal till your hearts content. :D (THAT'S ONLY MY STUFF THOUGH NOT ANYONE ELSES)

on a side note, i might not have posted the email simply because it wasn't a public thing you know? I would have written her back and tried to keep it off the boards (as far as the email) simply because it WAS an email.

I get that you were upset, but unfortunately, it drags in alot of others that wouldn't otherwise have had any clue as far as the coyote and you thing went. I've been in the fandom a long time sweetie, and after awhile you'll get to the point where you'll be like...oh fuck it. *laughs* sad, but true.

I wanted you to hear about my post from me first so i could clarify, cause I hate people stuffing words into my mouth.

*hugs* try to be calm sweetie, it's just fandom, it's not worth getting sick over ok? (seriously, i do worry)

vamps

[sevendeadlyfun.livejournal.com]

Vamps, it's your journal. Post what you want and it's not as if I'm going to be all up in arms that you used your journal to express yourself. Even if you did slam me...which, for the record, I don't think you did. I disagree about the use of the word wank, because I don't see this as such. But, again, it's your journal and I'm not about to come stomping over to give you grief!

I posted the email purely to let it speak for itself. I've been on the internetz for many a year now and I've seen how people can be accused of distorting one another's words. Therefore, I preferred to use lil_coyote own words. If anyone is bothered by this...well, than they're bothered. I was not asked to keep the communication to myself, so I don't feel I've violated anyone's confidence or broken any promises.

I'm not trying to drag anyone anywhere. I think I'm being dragged places and it's kinda making me tired. I posted about what I saw as a serious situation. Obviously not everyone agrees. However, some people do agree, including many of the authors whose work was taken without permission. I'm puzzled by the idea that this would cause any rifts in fandom. If someone's work was there without permission and they didn't care, then I certainly don't care. I didn't go around demanding they remove everyone's work immediately. I spoke only for myself, both on LJ and at the other website. So why everyone is up in arms over this is, to me, bizarre. If you (general you, not specific you) disagree with me, that's fine. I'm not upset that people disagree with me. I'm not going to flame anyone or start some kind of "fandom war" because not everyone is giving me hugs and cookies. People disagree. It happens.

Sorry. I didn't mean to jump up on such a big soapbox there. I'm just really puzzled why this has become an issue. Again, if your work was posted and you didn't care, that's your prerogative. I didn't speak for anyone or claim dominion over any work but my own. Those authors who didn't mind presumably saw the post, shrugged their shoulders and got on with their day. But, what really bothers me is that there seems to be a huge opinion that I shouldn't be bothered. That if you don't let people re-post your stories as you see fit, I don't know, the terrorists win or something equally dire (not that anyone has said that to me. That I know of, LoL).

Sigh...I'm overunning the comment box which is bad. Thank you for coming here to tell me about your post. I'm not mad, I'm not going to be mad, I'm not going to froth at the mouth and lose my mind because someone has a different (or negative) opinion. But, I do appreciate your courtesy.

[vamptastica.livejournal.com]

aww sweetie i just wanted to tell you first in case the "clackers" ran off at the mouth as they are wont to do. And i totally get the whole email thing being posted...just concern there on my part because i have dealt with the whole, well she shouldn't have posted that yada yada...whateverness of fandom.

I don't know why it blew up the way it did, i think there was a lull in the fandom and hey, any excitement is better than none? NOT My personal view thank you very much but it seems to be for alot of people.

*shakes head* the weirdness of fandom, go figure.

*hugs you tight*

:)

[addie-logan.livejournal.com]

Well, personally, I'd like to thank you for calling this to everyone's attention. As an author who was involved, I can say based on pertinent facts that it was theft. I never authorized this, and I never allowed this person to take my words and change them. Furthermore, when I confronted her about it, she lied to me and told me she'd tried to contact me but couldn't. Seeing as my email address is clearly posted all over the place and has been the same for ten years -- and the fact that she gave other people the same excuse -- this is clearly a lie to try to cover her mistake. So yeah, I'm going to call her a thief and a liar because hey, that's what she is.

One thing I will never, ever understand about fandom (any fandom, 'cause it doesn't just happen here) is how many people will jump to the side of "neutrality" when really, they're making the wronged authors look like hysterical trouble-starters. It wasn't as bad here as I've seen it in the past, but I had to roll my eyes, because that's such a typical response. So much more time is given to worrying about the feelings of the person who did whatever it was that was done this time than the author who's been violated yet again.

But anyway, since I don't really feel like getting involved in petty fandom squabbles, my point: thank you for calling this to people's attention. If no one had spoken up, I never would've known, and I'm glad you took the time to call a spade a spade -- and a thief and thief.

[sevendeadlyfun.livejournal.com]

Thank you very much. I'm glad I was able to help you. Hopefully, the trouble won't amount to much because frankly? I can't see this being a big deal. But again, thank you. I appreciate that you took time to come here and be all sweet to me. :)