Minor Meta
Aug. 10th, 2007 09:24 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
sevendeadlyfunI don't normally do metas simply because it takes research and thought, two things which I try to reserve for school. A girl only has so much research thought vibe to go around and I'd hate to be without that in the middle of a term. Anyways, since I'm sitting here thinking about it, I thought I'd splatter it all over my flist. Remember: I only bukkake for justice! (That line happily ganked from the webcomic "Something Positive"...God, I love that comic.)
In an academic or literary setting, plagiarism is pretty easy to define. According to The Oxford English Dictionary, plagiarism is defined as "to take and use as one's own the thoughts, writings, or inventions of another". Sounds fairly simple, yes? Nothing complex there, just a simple "don't steal" which even a five year old child can comprehend.
But, what about fanfic? By that definition, all of fanfic is plagiarism. Regardless of whether or not we make any money off of our work, we are, in the end, plagiarists. No amount of disclaimers at the beginning of our stories take away from the fact that we "...take and use as [our] own the thoughts, writings or inventions of another". I shouldn't be okay with that, but I am. Joss Whedon (among other authors, creators, and generally interesting owner type people) approves of fanfic. I know, it sounds like I made that up. I didn't.
In a 1999 interview with Patrick Lee, Joss Whedon states "I obviously can't read [fan fiction], but the fact is there seems to be a great deal of it, and that's terrific. I wished I'd had that outlet as a youngster, or had the time to do it now". That seems to be a pretty unambiguous statement of approval. A more recent interview from Newsarama with Joss Whedon shows his opinion is pretty consistent over time. In a discussion on the definition of the word "canon", Joss has this to say: "I believe there’s a demarcation between the creation and ancillary creations by different people. I’m all for that stuff, just like fanfic, but I like to know what’s there’s an absolutely official story-so-far, especially when something changes mediums, which my stuff seems to do a lot". Again, Joss Whedon goes out of his way to encourage his fan base to write, draw, or otherwise keep his creations in the forefront of their minds. Smart marketing, no doubt, but also comforting to those of us who like to take his characters out for a (sometimes naughty) spin.
So, is fanfic plagiarism? Yes. Even with the approval of the creator, by the strict definition of the word fanfiction is plagiarism. So, if everything we do is plagiarism, what about plagiarism within the fanfic community? Can someone plagiarize a plagiarizer?
Judging by the existence of communities such asstop_plagiarism , I'd say the opinion of fanfic writers is a resounding yes. I agree. Regardless of whether or not you created the characters, your individual story belongs to you. You the writer made Spike (or Angel or Buffy or etc..) say "Jinkies, I think these aren't the droids we're looking for!" For someone else to take your entire story, or any part of it, and attach their name to it is plagiarism. It's pure, it's simple, and it's easy to identify.
But, what about plotlines? Can you plagiarize a plotline? According to Jessamyn West of the Internet Public Library, there are only seven (7) basic plotlines in all of literature. According to Ms. West, these plotlines are as follows:
1 - [wo]man vs. nature
2 - [wo]man vs. man
3 - [wo]man vs. the environment
4 - [wo]man vs. machines/technology
5 - [wo]man vs. the supernatural
6 - [wo]man vs. self
7 - [wo]man vs. god/religion
If her assertion is true, than all plotlines are merely derivations of those seven and there can be no such thing as plotline plagiarism. In fact, others have boiled it down even further, stating that all plotlines come down to "Exposition/Rising Action/Climax/Falling Action/Denouement or to simplify it even further, Stuff Happens..." (Adams The Straight Dope, 2000). That is, in my opinion, incredibly general. Every single story should have "Stuff Happen" or why bother having a story in the first place?
But, suppose we have two stories with the exact same plot? Not just "Stuff Happens" or even, say, "[wo]man vs. the supernatural", which is, after all, the entirety of the Buffy and Angel 'verse. What if I write a "Spike and Angel go on a roadtrip" story and you write a "Spike and Angel" go on a roadtrip" story? Did one of us plagiarize?
The answer to that is, it depends. The Devil, as the saying goes, is in the details. If the only similarity between our two stories is the characters involved and the basic framework of the plot, i.e. the roadtrip, than it's highly unlikely that this is a case for finger pointing. After all, we do have those basic plotlines to consider. Some stories will contain similarities, after all. Both "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "The WIzard of Oz" follow the "[wo]man vs. the supernatural" plotline, but nobody is going to get those two stories confused. Buffy fights vampires in Sunnydale and Dorothy gets some nifty new shoes in Oz. It's the details that separate those two stories, even though they do follow the same very basic plotline.
Now, if my "Spike and Angel go on a roadtrip" story includes Spike and Angel meeting a succubus, stopping at a 7-11 for Rocky Road ice cream and then heading back to a hotel room to watch re-runs of "Cops" and your "Spike and Angel go on a roadtrip" story includes those exact same details, is one of us guilty of plagiarism? Again, perhaps not. It's those pesky details again. If those two stories include the exact same events in the exact same order someone may indeed be guilty of plagiarizing, intentional or otherwise.
It's not unheard of for two people to get the same idea. Known as concurrent invention, this is seen throughout history. The wheel as a means of transportation was invented in ancient Sumeria around 3500 BC. The wheel was also invented independently in ancient Mexico, but as a toy rather than a means of transportation. Same idea, different applications. We're back to the devilish detail again.
So, what does all this have to do with plagiarism? Simply that without an example of outright theft, plagiarism is a sticky wicket. Can there be two "Spike and Angel go on a roadtrip" stories involving succubi, Rocky Road ice cream and re-runs of "Cops" without it being plagiarism? Sure. It's not out of the realm of possibility that two writers wrote similar stories independent of each other. But, two stories with the exact same plot in the exact same order can be seen as plagiarism.
Simply inserting new dialogue or new characters does not automatically render the story new. If, as a writer, you take a story idea and merely change the words or the characters, that does not render you free from accusations of plagiarism. The more the details coincide, the more likely it is that the work will be seen as plagiarism.
Resources:
Adams, C. (2000). What are the 7 basic plots? The Staight Dope. Retrieved August 10, 2007 from http://www.straightdope.com/columns/001124.html
Lee, B. (1999). Interview With Joss Whedon. SciFi Weekly. Retrieved August 10, 2007 from http://www.scifi.com/sfw/interviews/sfw4854.html
Ryall, C. (2007). Interview With Joss Whedon.Newsarama. Retrieved August 10, 2007 from
http://www.whedon.info/Joss-Whedon-Angel-Season-6-Comic.html
But, what about fanfic? By that definition, all of fanfic is plagiarism. Regardless of whether or not we make any money off of our work, we are, in the end, plagiarists. No amount of disclaimers at the beginning of our stories take away from the fact that we "...take and use as [our] own the thoughts, writings or inventions of another". I shouldn't be okay with that, but I am. Joss Whedon (among other authors, creators, and generally interesting owner type people) approves of fanfic. I know, it sounds like I made that up. I didn't.
In a 1999 interview with Patrick Lee, Joss Whedon states "I obviously can't read [fan fiction], but the fact is there seems to be a great deal of it, and that's terrific. I wished I'd had that outlet as a youngster, or had the time to do it now". That seems to be a pretty unambiguous statement of approval. A more recent interview from Newsarama with Joss Whedon shows his opinion is pretty consistent over time. In a discussion on the definition of the word "canon", Joss has this to say: "I believe there’s a demarcation between the creation and ancillary creations by different people. I’m all for that stuff, just like fanfic, but I like to know what’s there’s an absolutely official story-so-far, especially when something changes mediums, which my stuff seems to do a lot". Again, Joss Whedon goes out of his way to encourage his fan base to write, draw, or otherwise keep his creations in the forefront of their minds. Smart marketing, no doubt, but also comforting to those of us who like to take his characters out for a (sometimes naughty) spin.
So, is fanfic plagiarism? Yes. Even with the approval of the creator, by the strict definition of the word fanfiction is plagiarism. So, if everything we do is plagiarism, what about plagiarism within the fanfic community? Can someone plagiarize a plagiarizer?
Judging by the existence of communities such as
stop_plagiarism , I'd say the opinion of fanfic writers is a resounding yes. I agree. Regardless of whether or not you created the characters, your individual story belongs to you. You the writer made Spike (or Angel or Buffy or etc..) say "Jinkies, I think these aren't the droids we're looking for!" For someone else to take your entire story, or any part of it, and attach their name to it is plagiarism. It's pure, it's simple, and it's easy to identify.But, what about plotlines? Can you plagiarize a plotline? According to Jessamyn West of the Internet Public Library, there are only seven (7) basic plotlines in all of literature. According to Ms. West, these plotlines are as follows:
1 - [wo]man vs. nature
2 - [wo]man vs. man
3 - [wo]man vs. the environment
4 - [wo]man vs. machines/technology
5 - [wo]man vs. the supernatural
6 - [wo]man vs. self
7 - [wo]man vs. god/religion
If her assertion is true, than all plotlines are merely derivations of those seven and there can be no such thing as plotline plagiarism. In fact, others have boiled it down even further, stating that all plotlines come down to "Exposition/Rising Action/Climax/Falling Action/Denouement or to simplify it even further, Stuff Happens..." (Adams The Straight Dope, 2000). That is, in my opinion, incredibly general. Every single story should have "Stuff Happen" or why bother having a story in the first place?
But, suppose we have two stories with the exact same plot? Not just "Stuff Happens" or even, say, "[wo]man vs. the supernatural", which is, after all, the entirety of the Buffy and Angel 'verse. What if I write a "Spike and Angel go on a roadtrip" story and you write a "Spike and Angel" go on a roadtrip" story? Did one of us plagiarize?
The answer to that is, it depends. The Devil, as the saying goes, is in the details. If the only similarity between our two stories is the characters involved and the basic framework of the plot, i.e. the roadtrip, than it's highly unlikely that this is a case for finger pointing. After all, we do have those basic plotlines to consider. Some stories will contain similarities, after all. Both "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "The WIzard of Oz" follow the "[wo]man vs. the supernatural" plotline, but nobody is going to get those two stories confused. Buffy fights vampires in Sunnydale and Dorothy gets some nifty new shoes in Oz. It's the details that separate those two stories, even though they do follow the same very basic plotline.
Now, if my "Spike and Angel go on a roadtrip" story includes Spike and Angel meeting a succubus, stopping at a 7-11 for Rocky Road ice cream and then heading back to a hotel room to watch re-runs of "Cops" and your "Spike and Angel go on a roadtrip" story includes those exact same details, is one of us guilty of plagiarism? Again, perhaps not. It's those pesky details again. If those two stories include the exact same events in the exact same order someone may indeed be guilty of plagiarizing, intentional or otherwise.
It's not unheard of for two people to get the same idea. Known as concurrent invention, this is seen throughout history. The wheel as a means of transportation was invented in ancient Sumeria around 3500 BC. The wheel was also invented independently in ancient Mexico, but as a toy rather than a means of transportation. Same idea, different applications. We're back to the devilish detail again.
So, what does all this have to do with plagiarism? Simply that without an example of outright theft, plagiarism is a sticky wicket. Can there be two "Spike and Angel go on a roadtrip" stories involving succubi, Rocky Road ice cream and re-runs of "Cops" without it being plagiarism? Sure. It's not out of the realm of possibility that two writers wrote similar stories independent of each other. But, two stories with the exact same plot in the exact same order can be seen as plagiarism.
Simply inserting new dialogue or new characters does not automatically render the story new. If, as a writer, you take a story idea and merely change the words or the characters, that does not render you free from accusations of plagiarism. The more the details coincide, the more likely it is that the work will be seen as plagiarism.
Resources:
Adams, C. (2000). What are the 7 basic plots? The Staight Dope. Retrieved August 10, 2007 from http://www.straightdope.com/columns/001124.html
Lee, B. (1999). Interview With Joss Whedon. SciFi Weekly. Retrieved August 10, 2007 from http://www.scifi.com/sfw/interviews/sfw4854.html
Ryall, C. (2007). Interview With Joss Whedon.Newsarama. Retrieved August 10, 2007 from
http://www.whedon.info/Joss-Whedon-Angel-Season-6-Comic.html
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no subject
on 2007-08-10 03:25 pm (UTC)But where do you draw the line? I have an outline of a story where one important detail is the same. People forget that Dawn exists after Buffy dies. Both fics would be Spawn with the idea that people forget Dawn- so if I write that would it be plagerism? The entire plot is different but I didn't think of that idea until ater I read hers... is an authors note okay (of course that is if I actually fleshed out the outline... But those are very interesting argues.
Of course on that note, I never thought to do an evil Dawn until I read Trinity's story. Then I wrote Dammed. The only similarity is Evil Dawn - but you know the idea came from somewhere...
And who was the first person to say hey how about a Claim? because that is in so much fan fic now... but at one time someone thought of it for thiers....
Saying all that - I have had friends plaegerizeed, and ideas stolen from them. That can ruin your enjoyment of writing that story. People have ideas but if they are inspired by other people they need to ask, they need to wait, they need to be careful about using those ideas. Stealing ideas, espically ina creative fandom where people write at different speeds can be really upsetting.
Okay I could say more but yeah I have a paper to write. lol
no subject
on 2007-08-11 04:49 am (UTC)I perceive a huge difference between themes and plotlines. I probably should have made that clear, but it honestly didn't occur to me until your comment. Themes are so general and so vast that I would say there is no such thing as theme plagiarism. To wit, both "The Wizard of Oz" (I just love that movie. I'm such a friend of Dorothy.) and "Cold Mountain" have as one of their main themes the journey home. But, they are such vastly different stories and that theme plays out in a vastly different way. Two stories with entirely different plotlines can have the same theme, and I see nothing wrong with that.
I also see nothing wrong with two stories having the same plotline. Your example is, to me, a perfect one for illustrating how two stories can be radically different while still having a similar plot. Two fics that deal with Dawn being such an essential part of Buffy that if Buffy dies, Dawn is, in effect, pushed into non-existence can be worlds apart in terms of plot. The framework of the stories may be the same, but it doesn't make the two stories even similar. If I wrote that, I would probably make it a comedy with Dawn running around knocking things over and people completely not even noticing. That's the beauty of writing. The same situation, when written by different authors, can be entirely new.
Phew! See, this is why I don't do metas. It's actual work, and you know how I avoid that! :)